While I remain agnostic in a manner that very few understand -- "I think it means something different than you think it means" -- there is the question I've posed to the faithful.
"If God has given us free choice, is it possible that Revelation tells us what MUST come to pass?"
I know the answer to this question. Dear faithful -- can you say it?
What I find so very sad is how many who claim to be faithful have chosen the path of inevitable fate.
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Okay, I'll bite. Assuming there will be a "rapture", souls of the departed, and of those who are living who are in a sufficient enough state of grace to warrant direct access to heaven, before the biblical spit hits the fan. then I will posit all who are left are going to be subject to a massive "culling out". Those who refuse to (sincerely) adjust to the handwriting on the biblical wall, are going to find themselves "(super)naturally selected" right out of the picture.
ReplyDeleteIs the above in the neighborhood of what you are suggesting?
What I'm referring to long precedes any "rapture." In fact, I'm not referring to anything supernatural Guy. God would not expect us to affect that, since the supernatural is something beyond our ability to influence it, and certainly not to judge. I would never be so smug as to assume myself worthy, and I would warn any others away from such smugness. It would appear to be a form of the trait most warned against: unbridled ego, and would be marked as a point against one. But even that is beyond my point.
ReplyDeleteI know there are some who appear to be all willing to welcome the endtimes. That, my friend, is a choice.
Who among the faithful really believe that God would look favorably upon any soul who works to speed up the coming of Armageddon?
How exactly does that work and still be seen as loving their neighbor as themselves?
There are natural consequences to building upon lie after lie. The liars then fear truth more than lies. All become deluded and persecute the truth seekers rather than face up to the consequences. There is nothing supernatural in that, but it is foretold. How exactly was it possible for men thousands of years ago to have such clear insight to such consequences? I do not know if there are supernatural forces, or merely natural forces of which we are not yet aware -- but those who wrote of these consequences sure seem to know what they were talking about when it came to human nature. Imagine that? Solid social science predictions before the word social science ever existed.
Okay, I'll bite. Assuming there will be a "rapture", souls of the departed, and of those who are living who are in a sufficient enough state of grace to warrant direct access to heaven, before the biblical spit hits the fan. than I will posit all who are left are going to be subject to a massive "culling out". Those who refuse to (sincerely) adjust to the handwriting on the biblical wall, are going to find themselves "(super)naturally selected" right out of the picture.
ReplyDelete*Addendum*
Addressing the freedom of choice, Of course you have that, if you didn't it would not matter what you did or did not do durring your time on earth as it was all a predetermined metaphysical crap shoot. IOW, your fate was sealed the moment you were conceived.
Satan would have you believe this, it is to his advantage to do so. God, on the other hand allows you freedom of choice. You can believe, you can chose to willfully disobey his law(s), you can chose not to believe in him, you can even chose to believe in any other (supposed) deity. That is up to you.
Some argue that Judas was "predestined" to betray Christ. This is not true by using the simplest of logic:
IF Christ must die in order to fulfill the new covenant between God and man, specifically, in Christ's case, someone needs to betray him unto the authorities.
This bitter cup was presented to Judas (perhaps as a culmination of choices he had already made in his life), but he was never under any obligation (or more correctly, forced or required) to do this. He might have felt he was, and Christ could not, at the specific point in time in which the betrayal occurred, influence him one way or the other. If memory serves, Christ did say something to the effect of "Do what you must", but NOT "YOU must do this". Had Judas resisted this particular temptation (and that is was, a temptation) someone else would have taken his place. But even they would have had the freedom of choice to decline. The point being there would have been someone, at some point in time, who would have allowed this to happen.
Is the above in the neighborhood of what you are suggesting?
And so now we look at Revelations. Must it come to pass? I think the short answer is, "Yes". As to when it will happen, the only one who has the answer to that is God.
ReplyDelete"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matthew 24:36
As to why it must eventually happen, I honestly don't know. Good winning over evil is the obvious answer, but not having the inside track on what God is thinking (I am not that keen on going instantly insane, nor am I so proud as to think I could know even a part of the mind of God...getting a little wiser as time goes by.) It occurs to me God's vision, which he has elected to share with man, has consistently turned out to be correct. (Not talking about the nit picking of the various Judao-Christian faiths, but the core truths presented as such in the bible).
There are many questions, the answers to which will only be presented upon ones departing of this plain of existence. And so far, only two people have returned from the dead, Lazarus and Christ. And neither one has gone into specific detail as to what day to day (or it's heavenly equivalent) is like. Other then to say, you shall not want or need for anything.
Posted the last comment, above, before yours "reappeared:". I think we are in the same neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteThose that seek the coming of the end times do not have the heart of God... if you have the heart of God you actively pray that this day is as far in the future as possible so as to enable the Holy Spirit to do it's work through those that believe that every soul should come to know God. But the current pace of rejection of God's plan seems to indicate the time may be nearer than we think. ;-)
ReplyDeleteThat's about how I see it Rob.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am not sure I'd call it the rejection of God's plan, I think it's more a denial of His supremacy, a dissing of Him. It's frustrating me to put into words. Yet I see it as very simple.
If God were to sit down next to you, how would He advise you? What questions would you ask of Him? I suspect He'd say: "to every question you have I have provided you the answer. You'll find it in your heart. You may not like the answer because you have been provided excuses from all around you. I never said it would be easy."
So how does this sound Rob? It's not that we exactly reject His plan but of His advice, how ever each of us comes to know of it, of how to best deal with the dilemmas we encounter in our life.
An example is my turmoil about accepting Social Security for which I'm shortly fully eligible. I see Him advising me not to take it, but also not to simply walk away from it. I've not yet come up with an answer to the dilemma.